Same old same

Monday, February 3

Good Morning Greg,

Just checking in! Is the hiring process for this position still ongoing or has it been filled. Look forward to hearing from you.

Thanks, Vee

Later that day…

Good Afternoon Vee,

Thanks for checking in.

We haven’t hired anyone yet.  Still have some decisions to make, but hopefully will have it worked out by the end of this week.

Someone will follow up with you either way.

Greg

Tuesday, February 4th

Greg phones me to ask a ‘few more questions’ because he wanted to ‘really get a feel for the skills I bring to the table’. It was a short conversation but it was just enough to keep me hoping. He ended the phone call by telling me someone would be in touch by end of week letting me know their decision, either way.

Monday, February 10th

Good Morning Greg,

I didn’t hear anything last week so I wanted to check in. How’s the process coming along? I’m very interested in this position and want to make sure I don’t miss an opportunity.

Please let me know!

Thanks, Vee

Later that day…

Good Afternoon Vee,

We hit a bit of a snag that’s delayed our ability to make a final decision. We’ll be in touch by Friday with our final decision.

Greg

Friday, February 14th

Suspecting (from experience over the past couple of weeks) that I wasn’t going to hear from them today, I decided to email them.

Hi Greg,

I was wondering if you could possibly update me. Am I still being considered for this position or not?

Vee

Ten minutes ago…

Hi Vee,

The position was actually filled on Monday and the candidate has already started with us. Good look with your career endeavors.

Greg

I don’t want to shit on hiring managers but this needs to be said. WHAT THE FUCK? Why do they do this? Don’t tell a candidate you’re going to be in touch if you’re not going to be in touch. Don’t fucking lie and say you’ve ‘hit a snag’ if you’re making an offer. Even I can come up with a better lie than ‘we’ve hit a snag’. And then to, five days later, let me know that you flat out lied five days earlier… I just…

He didn’t have to lie. He didn’t. If he didn’t want to tell me he’d made an offer, there were a million other ways he could have handled that situation. He chose to lie and say they hadn’t made a decision.

Why are candidates expected to jump through hoops for companies that can’t even provide the common decency to say ‘Hey, we hired someone’. I had four interviews with this company. FOUR INTERVIEWS. After four interviews was I really someone who wasn’t worthy of following up with?Why do they promise they’ll reach out ‘either way’ and then never reach out? Are they afraid of having to reject people? Because of that’s the fucking case they’re in the wrong job and I’ll gladly take that job off their hands. I’ll reject people all day long if it can give some job hunters some peace of fucking mind that they don’t have to wait for word that’s never coming.

It’s 2020 and ghosting is common practice in hiring, it seems.

I’m mad. But I’m not mad. I’m just… so used to this bullshit at this point. I’ve become so accustomed to shitty treatment, lies and misleading messages that if I ever found an honest hiring manager, I probably wouldn’t believe them anyways.

Why do I bother getting my hopes up when it always ends up the same?

83 thoughts on “Same old same

  1. It’s so easy to get caught up in something that you really are focused on. I just believe that position wasn’t meant for you and something even better is just around the corner. Keep your chin up my friend, you are talented and dedicated to what you believe in. It comes through clearly on here. I hope you are your guy are enjoying love day😉❤

    Liked by 2 people

      1. Well sister, I wish I knew that but in time all will be revealed. When i started my healing journey, a therapist i had used to always tell me “time takes time”. It used to work me but really in time I understood it more and more. Eventually I let go. Accepting and letting go….detaching it one of the most challenging concepts. It does reduce suffering however. I read and listen to Tara Brach, she’s the guru for Mindfulness 😉

        Liked by 1 person

  2. I actually started a list of companies I would never apply to again after the interview experience. Most of them, I won’t even shop at again. Actually, all but one – I can’t quit my hometown Nike for sneakers.
    Another “hometown”-ish company – Adidas – has a required application cover letter. Basically, an essay telling them how you fit in with their culture based on either 5 or 7 bullet points.
    I like to write, so each time I sent in a unique submission for a job, I felt like I’d clearly and distinctly made my case as a great candidate.
    Every time, I eventually got a firm rejection letter. Every damn time. Not once did I get an interview.
    My take on that is that they want people to go way above and beyond just to apply, then can’t even send you anything but an email that literally requires the minimal effort of clicking a mouse to send.
    Screw ‘em.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I definitely have my own list of companies I won’t deal with again. Not after how they treated me during the interview process.

      To do with your Adidas story – I really don’t think companies are looking for unique anymore. I genuinely think they just want mindless drones who’ll go with the flow of whatever they desire on any given day. It’s all a game to these companies in which you have to put forth the effort and they don’t really care based on responses given. I agree with you screw Adidas, screw this company. Screw ’em.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. I am out of advice. You are taking all the right steps. You are obviously intelligent, have an interesting point of view and you are actively trying to better your situation. All I can say at this point now is best of luck.

        Liked by 2 people

  3. I’m sorry to say I can’t relate here. I’ve not had to search for a job in my field (yet). But I did have a comment and a question.
    (Based on what I’ve read) It seems like many companies are hesitant to respond because if they say anything out of line, they might get sued, so they take a silent stance. Not polite, but it’s just risk aversion. You might ask them, politely, for a reason as to why they didn’t hire you so you can grow from the experience.
    Next, have you considered making a patreon or something similar in the mean time? Might help ease the monetary stress until you find that right company.

    Happy V-day 😊

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I did send them an email asking what I could do better for my future endeavors that which they wished me well on. TBH though, I really don’t expect to hear from them. Especially since how poor communication through this process was.

      I did consider patreon at one point. I was just… unsure of the whole thing and thus it never came to be.

      Happy Valentine’s Day to you, too.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. That’s fair. Hope for the best, plan for the worst is one of my mottos. Just keep on trying and hoping.

        You’ve got 6,000 followers here. If 10% give 1$ a month that’s 600$. That’s a decent dent in bills I’d say.

        Just trying to help. I don’t have all the answers, but I’m gonna keep hoping for you.

        Liked by 3 people

  4. So sorry you had to deal with that crap. If only people could just be prompt and straight-up with the hiring process. Don’t “ghost” candidates like that! Giving you all the hope you need to keep on going.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. I feel like being a hiring manager, it should be a requirement that you contact all final candidates. Especially if you’ve told me I’m one of the final three.

      Just hoping that I’ll forget about it is a pretty weak (I’d like to use harsher terminology but I’m trying to not be too mean) way to go about it….

      Liked by 2 people

    1. It sure is. I feel like I’m a teenager again who likes a boy who won’t pay me any attention but doesn’t want me to pay any attention to anyone else… (ban analogy I know, but I’m remembering a time in my life when I felt like this before)

      Liked by 1 person

  5. A few possibilities here (I worked in a student employment office). It could be that they offered the candidate the position but she was taking her time responding or they had a hard time getting in touch with references.I know in government work specifically hiring can take up to a month at times. Sometimes positions get put on hold too.

    Like

  6. The snag was the new person hadn’t responded to their offer yet. I said stuff like that to people when I ran businesses before. Because if that person had said no, they would move onto their next choice. Did he phrase it poorly? Perhaps, but if you were the second or third choice, it’s not like he’s going to say, “I’m going to offer you the job if the person I offered it to first turns it down.” By the time Friday rolls around, that person has been hired and he really doesn’t have to spare your feelings anymore. Shitty? Maybe, but the hiring process is having a lot of balls in the air at one time, praying you don’t drop them or make a mistake. I will candidly tell you if someone followed up with me that many times, it would not be a mark in the “reasons to hire” column. I’m sure some people who hire will disagree with me, which is perfectly cool, but I think checking in on the job status that much is the professional equivalent of a kid in a backseat asking his parents if they are there yet to the point of annoyance.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I might agree with you if they had only done 1 interview. But they did 4, so I feel like they should have contacted her Tuesday morning. If managers don’t want to relay that bad news, they should ask HR to do it for them so it gets done timely. But a lot of times managers try to keep HR out of their shit because they don’t trust them or something, when really the job of HR is to serve managers. I get super annoyed when I find out that managers at my company have ghosted people they interviewed. For some of the positions and depts I do the intvws myself and always contact the ones not hired the minute I know. I get what you say about too much contact on the one hand, but I also see the other side of it. Esp. after 4 fucking interviews. No idea why any company can’t just do 1 or 2.

      Liked by 3 people

      1. Had you interviewed me four times and told me a decision would be made Jan 24th, I probably would have done the same thing to you as well. I do not believe I’m in the wrong here. I just don’t.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. I don’t know anything about this company, so it’s hard to say exactly where/why they have the set-up the way that they do or how HR operates. I can honestly say I never interviewed anybody more than twice, so I can understand feeling dicked around by the process.

        Liked by 1 person

    2. You know, I was going to try and write a kind response to this, but the truth is, I don’t fucking care.

      I went through four interviews and one ‘extra’ phone call initiated by him.
      I was asked, on several occasions, if I could start February 3.
      I was asked if I could be signed up for the certification course required for the position from Feb 24-28.
      I was explained company salary guidelines, what I would be receiving for benefits and when they would kick in.
      I was introduced to other people in the office as someone who, and I quote directly, ‘will be working with us very soon!’
      I was even offered help with finding a place to live until they realized I would already have one.

      I was told that I would be phoned on January 24 when they’d decided between the three candidates. So pardon me for thinking I might have had a real genuine chance. If holding them accountable to contacting me ‘either way’ (as per their choice of words) when I’m jumping through hoop after fucking hoop makes me the annoying kid in the back seat of a car taunting their parents, then I guess that’s what advocating my worth is in 2020.

      I’d do the exact same fucking thing again.

      Liked by 4 people

      1. You should never feel like you have to write me a kind response if it’s not an honest response. I get why you feel used and abused. I was just trying to offer a different perspective.

        Like

  7. Hi V, I feel for you dear. I’m a retired Social Worker, I’ve seen lot’s. I do remember back during my job search times, Either I would get a letter saying said employeer chose someone else for the position, I had times like you said, when said employeer said they would make a decision by said date and would let me know either way, but did not, then I called only to find they filled the position. I did get many ” your hired(s).” as well. I believe with our society as corrupt as it is nowadays, employeers can no longer tell you that your a good candidate, or their deciding between you and two other people, or letting you know “either way”, some hiring staff, may find themselves in a position where they may feel intiminated, by policies, or feel like they need to watch their own back to keep their job, or they may even have an employeer who may not be honest and may have told them they didn’t need to call or write to those not chosen for the position. Any number of scenerios can be at play, or they just don’t know or care about etiquette, honesty, or just plain Donig Right. I truely get you and can relate, that your frustrated, angry and need a job fairly quickly so you can pay your bills. While I don’t have an answer for you, I just wanted to send some encouragement, It’s going to be okay, maybe not today, but it will be okay… Sending prayers… Blessings to you…

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Thank you for your kind note. Honestly, I think that if you’re not the #1 choice – the person they want in their office, they really just don’t care. It’s not about fear for their own job. I don’t have any answers either, and it sucks. Thank you for your encouragement, though. I feel like after that rant, I don’t deserve it. You’re a good soul ❤

      Liked by 1 person

  8. You should write to a senior manager (or find out who this person is managed by) and write them a letter stating where you see their failings, how you would have handled it better and that, anyone is feels the need to lie to prospective employees clearly isn’t the right fit for their company and that you could do a much more professional and efficient job than the person you dealt with.

    Who knows, perhaps they might even fire this guy and put you in his place, though, considering how they have treated you, you may not actually want to work for them now.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Thanks for the suggestion. I ranted it out, and at this point I’m cutting my losses. I wasted enough time on them. I appreciate your note though and thank you for taking the time to read my rant.

      Like

  9. I suspect you were the second choice candidate and they wanted to keep you in reserve until their first choice had « settled in. » It’s a fairly standard hiring tactic. You need to look at both sides of the recruitment equation, not just from your point of view. I know that’s of no comfort to you but remember they’re not working to your timetable, just theirs.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Something I learned from my time working in Public Relations is there is a lot of ways to phrase a statement that are not lies, that do not need to tell the full truth if you are not ready to. As mentioned in my post, there are MANY things he could have said that would have not been a lie. He chose to tell me no decision had been made on Monday only to tell me on Friday that a decision had been made on Monday. Say I was second choice, say they hadn’t heard back from the first person at that point and they didn’t want to tell me that they’d made an offer – did he have to lie, or did he choose to lie?

      Also, as a hiring manager, if you’re going to lie you might as well try and care enough to keep up the lie. Clearly he just didn’t give a flying fuck.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I agree, he wasn’t a good lier. Few people are. Also, I know from my many years working for a large corporate, the decision making process can be frustratingly slow for everyone concerned. I was just suggesting you look at the situation from all sides. I’ve done a significant amount of recruitment and headhunting. Finding candidates with the right skill set is rarely the issue, finding those who’ll also be a good cultural fit is the tricky bit.

        Liked by 2 people

      2. This is a great point. I think that it also helps to know what kind of manager you are. I gave people a huge amount of freedom, like probably illegally so, but when I hired them I told them I was hiring them to live their lives. They weren’t getting a new job, they were getting a new lifestyle. That scared a bunch of candidates away, and that was a good thing because our culture was far more important than our skills.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. I’m of the belief that culture is a made up construct. From your example provided, it sounds like there wasn’t much of a culture, but rather a lot of individuals ‘living their lives’ and just getting their work done.

        Like

      4. No, we were definitely all on the same team, but it rather organically happened. There were three of us full-timers who really just enjoyed the hell out of each other’s company and our spouses all liked each other, so we were around each other 10-14 hours a day. Eventually we hired two more full timers and about a dozen part-timers. We branched out into a small PR shop, created a film festival that got national recognition, took management of an art gallery and performance space near our office and put out two magazines. I didn’t keep track of sick days, vacation days or any of that stuff. People knew what they had to get done and when they had to get it done by. I think most would say it was the strangest set-up they’d seen. It had a culture that a lot of people admired from the outside but told us they could never be a part of because it seemed like we were always working when in reality, we were always having fun. And when someone was having a rough day, we were there for them. Mental health and enjoyment of work were my two of my biggest priorities. I couldn’t offer a lot of money so I thought quality of life needed to be our biggest benefit.

        Like

      5. I’m not alone in thinking this, but I’ll call this my personal opinion for the sake of this comment – Culture and office culture are made up constructs for management to feel less shitty about the awful working environments they’ve created with their teams.

        Every single place that I’ve worked that’s been a great place to work the concept has never come up. Because people were just decent human beings, they were nice to one another, employees were treated fairly and the kindness was genuine.

        Every place I’ve ever worked that find culture important has largely been a shit-hole of back talkers, misogynistic idiots and micro managers who spout ‘culture, culture, culture’ as a means to hide their shitty behaviour and the toxic work environment they spearhead.

        I do appreciate you trying to get me to see another perspective, and I thank you for that.

        Liked by 2 people

  10. Oh my, I read through all the comments here and they’re mostly frustrating to read!

    What you really need, and deserve 100%, is for someone to say that Greg is an absolute fucking twat!!! And the entire fucking company he works for!!

    I was honestly so shocked to read this, even after your previous experiences. The sheer amount that they got your hopes up, the amount they got MINE up, combined with a RIDICULOUS amount of leading you on, wasting your time, and treating you like a fucking twat, was horrifying and made me angry too! You have every right to be angry and frustrated, for sure.

    What also made me angry, was how it follows this general theme in society of ever-reducing compassion and empathy. I hate it.

    Honestly, I feel like the whole field is not for you. If that’s what it takes to get a job in it, it just doesn’t seem worth it anymore. You’re very kind, sensitive and compassionate, and it just feels so wrong that you should have to suffer all this. You even risk emotional PTSD, no joke! Those are incredibly valuable skills/personality traits, besides all of your other ones.

    I completely understand the money pressure too. My experience is that, once things get to absolute rock bottom, that’s when a bunch of people start mobilising to help, but not before. So sad, but people lack imagination and it’s sometimes true. So whilst I always plan for the worst-case to some extent, I’ve also learned to not think about it Too much (beyond preparing), until it happens, especially if I’m limited in options. I’m in the same situation now :\. I know that’s an easy thing to say!

    Things WILL turn around for you, and probably in an unexpected way that you weren’t imagining. You will go through a lot of shit, and maybe change course a few times to get there, but it WILL happen.

    💙

    Liked by 2 people

    1. While I appreciate that people read my rants at all, I think that a lot of times it’s easy to assume what I write in a few short paragraphs is the whole story. In reality, if I were to share the entire story, every time I shared a story, I’d probably run on to the lengths of a Harry Potter book with how I like to ramble.

      And. while I know others might just be trying to get me to see another perspective, the truth is, when I make it to a point when I’m willing to rant on my blog, I’ve thought of other perspectives already.

      Sometimes I just need to vent, to vent.
      Sometimes ranting is the best medicine and that’s all I do with a post like this.

      Anyways, I ranted. I’m going to go to sleep tonight and move on with life tomorrow. There’s nothing else I can do beyond that. Onto the next.

      Liked by 3 people

      1. “And. while I know others might just be trying to get me to see another perspective, the truth is, when I make it to a point when I’m willing to rant on my blog, I’ve thought of other perspectives already.

        Sometimes I just need to vent, to vent.”

        —I completely get you! You just need somebody to truly empathise and validate what you’re saying, in that moment, almost unconditionally. Tell you that you’re not crazy.

        And yeah, I get that you’re doing it as a last resort, as I do too.

        Like

      2. Thank You.
        Honestly, if I have thought something through and seen other perspectives and I think ‘Yeah, maybe I’m not really in the right here’, it’s not going to make it to a rant on my blog because I’ve realized I’m in the wrong. I’ve realized that perhaps my opinion is a little too skewed and that rant isn’t a good use of my time, energy or efforts because I need to change my thinking. I am rambling again, I see.

        Liked by 1 person

  11. Hello dear Vee,
    I am sorry for my belated reply, but hope you know I’m thinking of you, and rooting for you as always. I understand it’s not “comforting” or not of immediate practical help, but I continue to wish only the best for you❤️

    Liked by 1 person

  12. I’m so sorry V! Is being involved with social media the job you really want? Just asking as I think you would be really good as a hiring manager or whatever the job is called that deals with the interview/hiring process 💚

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I would love to find a job related to digital marketing and social media/online branding. That being said, I’m aware it’s a heavily saturated market where everyone in it believes they can do a better job ‘than the next guy’. So, it’s a hard industry to find a genuine job in. For that reason, I’ve been branching out to industries that I have the skills for, but aren’t necessarily what I desire, because I’m trying to be realistic about job hunting and life and paying bills and being an adult and whatnot.

      Like

  13. I’m in somewhat of the same situation so I feel your pain. My job, after 3 years of working for them with no complaints, fired me without warning because I missed one day out of the month due to the death of my grandfather. I was PRN(pick up shifts as needed) and the minimum hours every month was a normal shift(8 hours). I didn’t realize I had missed picking up for 1 shift. When I tried to reconcile because I was unaware that I had missed a day they said I’d have to start the hiring process over again. As in reapply for my own position, re-do a two step interview, go through a 90 day probation area, be trained again, and wait for a response in the mean time….That was a month ago. They told me if they didn’t contact me to contact them, so I did. No response. I’ve been waiting for my own job to hire me and nobody wants to “Keep in contact” it’s annoying. So I feel for you in the lack of communication.

    Liked by 1 person

      1. Thank you. I’m just going to move on and leave the job in my past. I kept the job because I know it’s not easy to find credible decent paying jobs in the midwest or anywhere for that matter. I thought if all else failed I would have a job to fall back on…

        Like

      1. Thanks. it is what it is though I just decided to let the job go. I put my soul in and got treated like shit under their shoes. I’m trying to find a better way to live anyways. Or at least get a job that is fulfilling fo me and not just a paycheck…

        Liked by 1 person

  14. Hey Vee! I just had such a similar experience. It is the most frustrating. I didn’t have four interviews, but I had two. It just felt like a big waste of time. The whole interviewing process took nearly three months. They ended up picking another candidate and never followed up until I did a fifth time. SO aggravating. On the other hand, I don’t want to work for a company that doesn’t have their business in order.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I’m sorry that you’ve been through a similar experience. It’s really frustrating that companies really don’t seem to value the time or efforts of job candidates. I completely understand your frustrations, all too well. And you’re right – you probably don’t want to work for a company that is that poorly organized. It doesn’t make it sting any less though.

      Liked by 1 person

    1. It’s pretty bullshit. If I was one of 100 candidates, I’d expect them to not contact me. But, as one of the final three, who’d been through that many issues, the least you can fricken do is let someone know… Ya know?

      Like

  15. I would’ve followed up with one last reply: Thank you for not offering me the position as I prefer to would with people and companies that process that rare factor often referred to as…integrity. I’ll be sure not to recommend your firm where ever I’m employed by good people. But hey, that me and while I may not have a job, I still have my integrity.

    Liked by 1 person

  16. I think you need a recruitment agent, someone who believes in you and puts you forward and chases on your behalf. There is a disconnect going on here beyond your comprehension – has your industry changed? Are you missing something in you skill set or would something else entirely be where you need to be looking? 💚

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Hi Vee.

    I have been following along with your posts. (Lovely blog, btw!) Have you tried using Upwork to land some freelance clients? I still have a full time job, and work freelance as well. You still have to be careful on their platform (some jobs posted are scams), but it’s a great way to find some work, get paid, and enhance your skills. Just a thought. I hope you find something soon with your job search.

    Liked by 1 person

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